Legislature(2013 - 2014)BARNES 124

02/19/2014 01:00 PM House RESOURCES


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
--Delayed to 1:20 p.m. Today--
+= HB 161 AUCTIONS FOR BIG GAME HARVEST PERMITS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
*+ HB 135 PETERSVILLE RECREATIONAL MINING AREA TELECONFERENCED
Moved Out of Committee
*+ HJR 26 OFFSHORE OIL & GAS REVENUE SHARING TELECONFERENCED
Moved Out of Committee
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
          HB 161-AUCTIONS FOR BIG GAME HARVEST PERMITS                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:52:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER announced that the  next order of business would                                                               
be HOUSE  BILL NO. 161, "An  Act relating to auctions  or raffles                                                               
for big  game harvest permits  and to the selection  of nonprofit                                                               
organizations to conduct auctions  and raffles for the Department                                                               
of Fish and Game."                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:52:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN GATTIS, Alaska  State Legislature, stated the                                                               
committee  held  a hearing  last  year  on  HB  161 and  she  has                                                               
subsequently worked  on the  bill with  the Alaska  Department of                                                               
Fish & Game (ADF&G) as well  as several sporting groups to create                                                               
the work draft in members' packets.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:53:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON  moved  to adopt  the  proposed  committee                                                               
substitute  (CS)  for HB  161,  Version  Y, labeled  28-LS0530\Y,                                                               
Bullard, 2/17/14 as the working document.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI objected for discussion purposes.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:53:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTIS stated  that  the  ADF&G operates  several                                                               
programs that allow  big game permits to be  donated to nonprofit                                                               
sporting  groups to  support state  wildlife  management.   Three                                                               
separate auction  programs are  authorized in  statute, including                                                               
the Delta Bison,  Etolin Elk and Big Game programs.   The current                                                               
statutory  framework governing  the two  most prominent  programs                                                               
has become  outdated - Delta Bison  and Big Game -  and therefore                                                               
many  groups   are  ambivalent   about  participating   in  these                                                               
programs.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTIS  explained HB 161 [Version  Y] would expand                                                               
the previously  mentioned program's scope by  allowing additional                                                               
permits to  be issued for  more species and increase  the current                                                               
statutory limit  of 19  permits to  42 permits.   The  bill would                                                               
further  invigorate   the  program   by  giving   the  designated                                                               
nonprofit organizations a greater share  of the proceeds from the                                                               
auction of the permit[s].                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTIS indicated  the reason for this  is that not                                                               
enough  folks wanted  to participate  in  the permit  fundraising                                                               
effort [when the  organization could only retain  [10] percent of                                                               
the net  profits].  By  increasing the nonprofit's share  to [30]                                                               
percent, the program  could attract more interest  and the permit                                                               
raffle or auction should be more attractive to organizations.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTIS highlighted changes  in the guidelines that                                                               
allow  the department  to  auction off  permits  [in Section  1].                                                               
This language  would allow  the ADF&G to  limit the  donations to                                                               
nonprofit   organizations  that   are   established  to   promote                                                               
education  in outdoor  traditions and  conservation and  wildlife                                                               
protection programs in partnership with the department.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:55:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTIS noted  that two  types of  permits can  be                                                               
issued under the bill.   She explained that permits under Section                                                               
1  allow 100  percent  of the  proceeds from  the  auction to  be                                                               
retained by  the sporting group  operating the auction.   Permits                                                               
under Section  2 of  the bill  would allocate  30 percent  of the                                                               
proceeds  to  qualified  sporting group  organizations  while  70                                                               
percent will be  retained by the department and  deposited in the                                                               
fish and game fund.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTIS  reported the  sale of these  specific game                                                               
permits brought  in $460,000 in revenue  from 2009 to 2013.   She                                                               
reiterated  that this  money is  deposited in  the fish  and game                                                               
fund and has been used  to directly benefit purchasers of general                                                               
hunting, fishing and trapping licenses.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTIS said the "North  American Model of Wildlife                                                               
Conservation"  has  been removed  from  HB  161.   This  language                                                               
brought some confusion that was never intended, she said.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:56:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER opened public testimony on HB 161.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:56:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WAYNE  E.  HEIMER  provided  background  on  the  permit  auction                                                               
system.   He  said  this  system has  always  existed in  western                                                               
states,  in  which  governors  would  give  hunting  and  fishing                                                               
permits away  as a form of  political patronage.  In  fact, until                                                               
the 1960s  Alaska's permit  system was very  much like  this, but                                                               
was withdrawn  by the  legislature after  Governor Egan  issued a                                                               
governor's  permit for  the taking  of Dall  sheep in  the Brooks                                                               
Range  by  the nephew  of  the  Shah of  Iran.    He related  his                                                               
understanding the  Shah was really  was there to  steal peregrine                                                               
falcons, which were  considered an endangered species.   The idea                                                               
to use these  permits for conservation purposes  arose in Wyoming                                                               
during the  time that  he was the  Dall sheep  research biologist                                                               
for the Alaska Department of Fish  & Game.  He offered his belief                                                               
that he was  the first person to advocate using  permits to raise                                                               
conservation money although the  department was not interested in                                                               
the  program.    Thus,  he   shifted  the  program  idea  to  the                                                               
Foundation for North  American Wild Sheep, now known  as the Wild                                                               
Sheep  Foundation.    The  Alaska   Chapter  of  the  Wild  Sheep                                                               
Foundation later  worked with Senator  Con Bunde on  the enabling                                                               
legislation that allows permit auctions to take place in Alaska.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. HEIMER  related his  background, such that  he spent  over 15                                                               
years with the Foundation for  North American Wild Sheep and Wild                                                               
Sheep  Foundation, having  served three  terms on  the board,  as                                                               
well as  having served  as the Alaska  Chapter president.   These                                                               
organizations generate "big dollars"  for permits, in particular,                                                               
for Dall sheep.   In fact, he previously worked  to advertise and                                                               
sell Dall  sheep permits in  the market when the  permits weren't                                                               
as attractive as they are now.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:59:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HEIMER said he is opposed  to HB 161 because the premises are                                                               
highly  questionable.   The  idea  that the  permit  system is  a                                                               
"Golden  Goose" from  which one  can repeatedly  squeeze eggs  is                                                               
false.   The auction prices  for these  permits can vary  much as                                                               
100  percent.   "Sometimes they  attract significant  dollars but                                                               
sometimes they  don't," he  said.   These buyers  typically state                                                               
that they want  to give back to the resource  that they enjoy and                                                               
he acknowledged  that benefit.   He noted these hunters  are also                                                               
looking for  an unusual  animal although they  will not  pay more                                                               
than  the other  bidders are  willing to  pay.   He characterized                                                               
this  market  as  a  "volatile"  market  and  he  questioned  the                                                               
assumption that one could simply  make more permits available and                                                               
maintain the high price for permits.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. HEIMER also questioned the  rationale or ethos behind HB 161.                                                               
He  stated  his  preference   to  have  amateur  non-governmental                                                               
organizations (NGOs) but not industrial  ones auctioning the hunt                                                               
permits  such  as  the  Wild Sheep  Foundation.    He  questioned                                                               
capitalizing the NGOs over the manager.   He said that having one                                                               
permit go specifically  to an NGO for education  seems to presume                                                               
that this  action will be  more beneficial  in the long  run than                                                               
capitalizing  the  managers who  produce  the  benefits from  the                                                               
resource under Alaska's Constitution and state statutes.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HEIMER  said  non-governmental  organizations  (NGOs)  often                                                               
confuse themselves  with the [governmental] managers,  which they                                                               
are  not.   In fact,  the NGOs  exist to  support and  assist the                                                               
managers.   The aforementioned  reasons lead  to him  to question                                                               
the premise  of HB  161.   Further, someone  will need  to market                                                               
these permits,  which will entail  substantial work.  Although an                                                               
organization might  earn 30 percent  of the proceeds,  but again,                                                               
he wondered  whether 30 percent  of the proceeds could  be better                                                               
spent by  the agency providing  benefits or  if it would  just be                                                               
used  to  pay  the  NGO's  overhead costs.    In  response  to  a                                                               
question, he  answered that he  had previously  submitted written                                                               
comments last April but has not recently done so.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:02:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked whether his  main objection to HB 161                                                               
has been  that expanding the  number of permits will  deflate the                                                               
value in a pretty small market.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HEIMER replied  that is  a major  concern of  his since  the                                                               
buyers at  auction really  tend to  appreciate the  appearance of                                                               
exclusivity of the permits.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:03:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON understood the  concern that the NGOs or                                                               
organizations  really end  up paying  [administrative costs]  for                                                               
the managers  and the proceeds are  not used for the  NGOs' goals                                                               
and activities to enhance wildlife.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HEIMER related  a  scenario  in which  a  permit brought  in                                                               
$100,000, with  30 percent being  spent to  market the NGO.   The                                                               
state would  need to  assume the NGO  will produce  more benefits                                                               
with the $30,000  than the [state's] managers  would produce with                                                               
the same  funds.   He offered  his belief it  is likely  that the                                                               
NGOs will spend it on overhead.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:04:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON referred to page  2, lines 13-14 of Version                                                               
Y.  He understood 30 percent  of the net proceeds from the permit                                                               
auction would be  retained by the organization,  noting the costs                                                               
of  marketing,  advertising, and  holding  the  auction would  be                                                               
deducted first.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. HEIMER remarked that this troubles him even more.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTIS  said anyone who has  organized fundraisers                                                               
knows the costs and efforts involved  in doing so.  She explained                                                               
that this  bill seeks  to make it  worthwhile for  fundraisers to                                                               
fundraise.    She  characterized  the situation  as  a  "win-win"                                                               
situation when the fundraising organization  can raise more money                                                               
for the organization  and the state through  the auction process.                                                               
The  bill would  allow  the state  to obtain  70  percent of  the                                                               
proceeds with 30  percent retained by the NGOs.   She stated that                                                               
the  current level  of allowing  10 net  proceeds be  retained by                                                               
NGOs  has resulted  in people  simply  not willing  to raise  the                                                               
funds.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:06:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON asked  whether  the bill  relates to  one                                                               
permit  out of  several permits  in an  area.   He further  asked                                                               
whether the auctioned  permit is a guaranteed  permit rather than                                                               
an opportunity to participate in a drawing permit hunt.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTIS agreed it was a guaranteed permit.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  asked  how   much  the  state  typically                                                               
receives for other permits in the hunt area.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REID  HARRIS, Staff,  Representative  Lynn  Gattis, Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature, on  behalf of Representative Lynn  Gattis, the prime                                                               
sponsor of HB 161,  said he deferred to the ADF&G  to answer.  He                                                               
confirmed the permit would be guaranteed.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked how  much revenue the state receives                                                               
from any permit that is a drawing permit.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARRIS deferred to ADF&G to answer.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  reiterated  his  question  by  posing  a                                                               
scenario in  which 10 permits are  available in one area  and one                                                               
permit is  auctioned off.   He asked  how much revenue  the state                                                               
receives on the remaining nine permits for drawing permit hunts.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DOUG VINCENT-LANG,  Director, Division of  Wildlife Conservation,                                                               
Alaska Department of  Fish & Game, responded  the department only                                                               
makes  the amount  of money  equivalent to  the license  fees and                                                               
application fee to enter the drawing hunt.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:08:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON   asked  whether  the  amount   would  be                                                               
approximately $25-$50 fees for the drawing hunt entry fees.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. VINCENT-LANG answered that is correct.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  asked whether  any drawing has  made less                                                               
than $50.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. VINCENT-LANG answered no.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  summarized  there isn't  any  comparison                                                               
between the [permit  hunts being auctioned] for  regular hunts in                                                               
terms of  generating funds  for the  state.   For example,  if an                                                               
auctioned  hunt  raises  $100,000   and  the  state  receives  70                                                               
percent,  or even  50 percent  of  the proceeds,  the state  will                                                               
still receive $50,000  as opposed to the $50 it  would receive if                                                               
the  department issued  drawing  permits.   Therefore, this  bill                                                               
represents  an opportunity  to increase  the state's  treasury by                                                               
allowing qualified organizations to  raise money to help preserve                                                               
species.   He summarized this  bill would allow  organizations to                                                               
auction  one  hunt per  area  per  species.   He  emphasized  the                                                               
difference in  terms of economics alone  is significant; however,                                                               
the  bill   would  not   adversely  affect   the  species.     He                                                               
characterized HB  161 as making  it economic for someone  to make                                                               
money for the state.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:10:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  P.  WILSON  said  she was  familiar  with  Etolin                                                               
Island.   She asked how many  elk permits would be  issued and of                                                               
those the number that would be auctioned off.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  responded that  the number of  permits in                                                               
the game management system allow  for a certain number of animals                                                               
to be taken.  One hunt  would be reserved for the ADF&G's auction                                                               
and the  remaining permits will  be issued to citizens,  he said.                                                               
He reiterated  the number of  permits issued would depend  on the                                                               
size of the herd.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  P. WILSON  maintained  her interest  in how  many                                                               
permits will  be auctioned  off and the  total number  of permits                                                               
that will be issued.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HARRIS  said  the  original   bill  removed  all  four  tags                                                               
designated for Etolin Island out  of the ADF&G's auction permits.                                                               
He said  the Devil's  Thumb Archers  Archery Club  objected since                                                               
this  organization  has been  the  recipient  of the  elk  raffle                                                               
permit for  some time.   In  fact, the club  has applied  for and                                                               
received a tag nearly every year  and has typically been the only                                                               
organization applying for  the permits.  The  sponsor decided not                                                               
to change the  Etolin Island elk permit language  so the language                                                               
in   Version   Y   will  reinstate   the   language   [under   AS                                                               
16.05.343(b)].                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:12:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI removed his objection.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
[Version Y was before the committee].                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:12:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KAREN  GORDON,  testifying  on   behalf  of  herself,  noted  she                                                               
currently serves as a board  member for the Wild Sheep Foundation                                                               
and has  been involved  with this  foundation for  several years.                                                               
She previously wrote  an article about the  ADF&G's permit system                                                               
and  has followed  the [auction  or  raffle of  big game  harvest                                                               
permit] program.   She  offered her  belief that  this bill  is a                                                               
"clever scheme"  to fund a special  interest private organization                                                               
without any benefit  to the state.   Current enabling legislation                                                               
-  enacted in  1995  -  prescribes profit  as  a  motive to  sell                                                               
permits.   The  laws in  place provide  significant funds  to the                                                               
state since the permits go  to the organizations best experienced                                                               
in  [conducting  the  auctions.]   She  questioned  reducing  the                                                               
state's  percentage of  net proceeds  from the  90 percent  to 70                                                               
percent under  the bill.   She said,  "This doesn't  make sense."                                                               
This  bill would  preclude  permits being  sold  where they  have                                                               
proven to  be the most profitable  to the state.   Instead, under                                                               
the bill, 30  percent of the net proceeds will  generously fund a                                                               
private organization.   For example,  if the bill was  applied to                                                               
the recent  Dall sheep permit  sold at the Wild  Sheep convention                                                               
last  month the  process  would  cost the  state  $52,500 in  net                                                               
proceeds rather than  $17,500.  She characterized  the Wild Sheep                                                               
convention  as  a  place  where  "sheep-crazed"  wealthy  hunters                                                               
congregate to specifically  buy these permits.   She reported the                                                               
first Dall sheep permit was  auctioned off for $200,000, a second                                                               
one was  auctioned off  for $200,000 several  years ago,  and the                                                               
most recent one was auctioned off for $175,000.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:14:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. GORDON  said the permit  system in  place for the  Wild Sheep                                                               
Foundation  alone raised  $926,000 in  state permits  since 1997.                                                               
Thus,  it isn't  as  though this  process  doesn't already  bring                                                               
money to the state.  She  cautioned against setting up a monopoly                                                               
without any controls  on how the money is spent.   In fact, funds                                                               
could be  used for political contributions  since safeguards will                                                               
be removed under the bill.   She questioned whether a conflict of                                                               
interest exists since the Wild  Sheep Foundation's board includes                                                               
the commissioner  of the ADF&G  and another  department employee,                                                               
but  the commissioner  sets the  terms  of the  permits that  are                                                               
awarded, rather  than by law,  as it  appropriately is now.   She                                                               
concluded that this bill entirely  fails to benefit the state and                                                               
should  not proceed  any further  in any  form.   This plan  will                                                               
decrease profit  to the state  over the  short and long  term and                                                               
will  establish a  funding stream  from  the state  to a  private                                                               
organization managed, in part, by  several ADF&G employees.  This                                                               
bill is  an example of fixing  something that is not  broken, she                                                               
said.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   GATTIS  respectfully   disagreed,  saying   that                                                               
offering  30  percent  is  far   more  of  an  incentive  to  get                                                               
organizations to  participate.  She  offered her belief  that the                                                               
state will  receive more revenue  by having more  people involved                                                               
and the process will gain more funding for the state.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:17:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAVE CAMPBELL,  Donations Chairman, Southcentral  Alaska Chapter,                                                               
Ruffed Grouse Society,  stated he has resided in  Alaska for over                                                               
47 years.   He detailed his membership  in relevant organization,                                                               
including that  he is a  member of  the Ruffed Grouse  Society, a                                                               
life member  of the Rocky  Mountain Elk Foundation,  the National                                                               
Rifle Association (NRA), the Boone  and Crockett Association, the                                                               
KwaZulu-Natal Hunting and  Conservation Association, the One-Shot                                                               
Antelope Hunt  Club, as well as  a member of Trout  Unlimited and                                                               
the Arctic  Bird Dog  Association.  He  said he  supports ethical                                                               
and  legal means  of flora  and fauna  throughout the  world, but                                                               
especially in  Alaska.   He said,  "I believe  with all  my heart                                                               
that HB 161  is needed by 501 (3) (c)  organizations in Alaska to                                                               
benefit their  individual programs for conservation,  legal sport                                                               
hunting, and  sport fishing."   This bill will aid  the nonprofit                                                               
organizations  in   their  fundraising   endeavors  as   well  as                                                               
increasing funds to  the general fund in Alaska.   He offered his                                                               
belief  that  this bill  is  long  overdue  for passage  in  this                                                               
legislature.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:18:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GARY STEVENS, speaking on behalf  of himself, said he also serves                                                               
on the  Board of Directors for  the Outdoor Council.   He pointed                                                               
out  the number  of permits  would increase  from 19  to 46,  not                                                               
including ones  for wolves.   He offered  his belief this  is too                                                               
many permits.  He agreed with  Mr. Heimer's testimony in terms of                                                               
the sheer  volume of permits  being detrimental to the  state, in                                                               
particular, in  terms of bison and  Dall sheep.  In  terms of the                                                               
value of  the permits  for the raffle,  he estimated  over 20,000                                                               
applicants apply  for the  bison hunts  in Delta.   Based  on $10                                                               
resident  and non-residents  fees he  further estimated  that the                                                               
bison hunt generates  over $200,000.  He noted  the permittee can                                                               
enjoy  the  natural  resource  that   belongs  to  all  Alaskans.                                                               
Although   he  does not  have a  copy of  the proposed  committee                                                               
substitute, (CS)  for HB 161, Version  Y, he referred to  page 1,                                                               
line 8  of HB 161  as introduced,  [Version U] which  reads, "The                                                               
donation may be made only  to a nonprofit corporation established                                                               
to promote outdoor and conservation  programs in partnership with                                                           
the  department ...."   He  understood  the sponsor  to say  this                                                           
language  changed,  but  he  was   not  aware  of  any  nonprofit                                                               
organization  that  would  qualify   using  this  language.    He                                                               
expressed  interest  in  identifying  which  organizations  could                                                               
qualify.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:21:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR related  her  understanding that  management                                                               
issues  and a  perceived shortage  of Dall  sheep and  bison have                                                               
prompted him to comment on these species.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  STEVENS responded  that  it is  not  a "perceived"  shortage                                                               
since  the  bill will  create  a  shortage of  opportunities  for                                                               
Alaska  and non-residents  to participate  in hunting  Dall sheep                                                               
and  bison.   He questioned  taking five  permits from  those two                                                               
species  from the  limited number  of permits  available for  the                                                               
general public, which he found to be excessive.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:22:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MIKE    CRAWFORD,    Regional   Representative,    Safari    Club                                                               
International (SCI), stated  he lives on the  Kenai Peninsula and                                                               
is a member  of the Legislative Outdoor  Heritage Caucus Advisory                                                               
Committee  and  is  the  Chair of  the  Kenai  Soldotna  Advisory                                                               
Committee  of Fish  and Game.   He  represents two  award-winning                                                               
chapters  in  Alaska.   He  reported  that  SCI has  over  50,000                                                               
members  and over  200 chapters.   He  stated that  the SCI  is a                                                               
nonprofit organization, a leader  in defending hunting rights and                                                               
conservation around the world, the  U.S., and Alaska.  He offered                                                               
SCI's support  of HB 161.   He offered  his belief that  the main                                                               
objection  to this  bill  is  that people  might  think that  the                                                               
organization is being greedy.   He disagreed, noting that SCI has                                                               
given  over $750,000  to  fish  and game  projects  and State  of                                                               
Alaska  fish   and  game  projects,  including   the  Wood  Bison                                                               
reintroduction  project, the  recent Kenai  Peninsula moose  calf                                                               
survival  study,  the  Kodiak   Island  chronic  wasting  disease                                                               
affecting deer, the Kodiak brown bear.   The SCI spends more time                                                               
and money on  the permit tags for  a small return.   He related a                                                               
scenario in which  the SCI held a Friday night  auction for a Tok                                                               
[Dall sheep] tag,  which drew $16,000.  Recently,  the Wild Sheep                                                               
Foundation  sold  the same  Dall  sheep  tag  for $180,000.    He                                                               
indicated the  same people  attend these  conventions and  if the                                                               
SCI had  held its auction on  a Saturday it may  have needed more                                                               
funds.  He  said the auctions benefit the  wildlife, the hunters,                                                               
and the state.   The SCI looks forward  to advancing conservation                                                               
and hunter's  rights by  working with the  state on  projects for                                                               
years to come.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:25:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  referred to page  1, Version Y,  and asked                                                               
whether  SCI will  fit under  the  definition.   The language  in                                                               
subsection (a)  read, in part,  "The denotation may be  made only                                                               
to a  nonprofit corporation established  to promote  education in                                                               
outdoor  traditions  and  conservation  and  wildlife  protection                                                               
programs in partnership with the  department subject to the terms                                                               
of a memorandum of agreement developed by the department."                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. CRAWFORD replied he believes so.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:26:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR referred  to the  administrative burden  and                                                               
motivation of  nonprofits to participate  in permits.   She asked                                                               
whether  simply increasing  the 10  percent to  30 percent  alone                                                               
would have a positive benefit for the organization.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. CRAWFORD answered that he believed  it would.  He stated that                                                               
when the fundraiser is done,  the organization knows a set amount                                                               
of money will be raised, and  if the organization must give up 90                                                               
percent of  the proceeds,  it is more  likely the  nonprofit will                                                               
use something to generate more income.   Of course, the SCI would                                                               
also  like  to help  the  ADF&G  and  the state  on  conservation                                                               
projects and  interests, but  the increase  in the  percentage is                                                               
what he  is most interested  in [rather  than an increase  in the                                                               
number of permits].                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:27:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON  turned  to   the  donor  license  auction                                                               
proceeds in 2011  and 2012, which identifies  species for permits                                                               
that have  been held, including  bison, musk ox, brown  bear, and                                                               
Dall  sheep,   but  not  for   moose.    He  asked   whether  the                                                               
organization chose not to auction them off.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  CRAWFORD   believed  that  is   the  case.    He   said  his                                                               
organization  attempts to  get  the  most money  it  can for  its                                                               
efforts.   He indicated that  receiving a greater  percentage [30                                                               
percent of net proceeds] would create an incentive.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  wondered if  19 permits were  available at                                                               
[30] percent if the organization  would apply for more permits or                                                               
if the SCI would only offer one at its fundraiser.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. CRAWFORD  related that he  receives an invitation  from ADF&G                                                               
each year to apply for those tags.   He reported that the SCI has                                                               
declined  to offer  certain tags.    He suggested  that the  [30]                                                               
percent will  get everyone's  attention.   He offered  his belief                                                               
that this  should generate additional  income for the state.   He                                                               
anticipated the tag would be auctioned  off for more money so the                                                               
state' portion  will be greater,  too.  He characterized  the SCI                                                               
organization as  a great organization  and people  attending will                                                               
be willing to pay for these experiences in Alaska.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:30:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HELEN  NETSCHERT,  President,  Alaska  Kenai  Peninsula  Chapter,                                                               
Safari Club  International, reported that  her club is a  501 (c)                                                               
(3)  nonprofit   corporation  consisting  of   approximately  200                                                               
volunteers and  none of  their officers  are compensated  for any                                                               
work they  do.  She  stated that HB 161  will benefit all  of her                                                               
organization's  educational, wildlife,  and conservation  efforts                                                               
on the  Kenai Peninsula.   Currently,  the organization  has been                                                               
focused  on moose.   Additionally,  the  club offers  educational                                                               
programs  for children  ages 10  and above.   She  said her  club                                                               
supports HB 161.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:32:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked whether the  tag alone is sold or if                                                               
the club packages the hunt and includes a guide.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. NETSCHERT responded that the  Safari Club International (SCI)                                                               
markets it as  a hunt and the person buying  the hunt must obtain                                                               
a  [big  game  guide-outfitter]  and  transportation.    The  SCI                                                               
provides this  information in  the explanation of  the hunt.   Of                                                               
course, an  out-of-state person is  required to have a  guide for                                                               
Dall sheep  anyway.  She  recapped that the  SCI markets it  as a                                                               
hunt.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  CRAWFORD  added there  have  been  times  when the  tag  was                                                               
matched  with a  guide  as  a package,  but  not  always.   Thus,                                                               
sometimes the SCI  packages the hunts and will probably  do so in                                                               
the future.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON asked  for further  clarification on  how                                                               
the cost of the permit would be broken out in packaged hunts.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  CRAWFORD advised  that the  SCI tries  to get  the guide  to                                                               
donate 100  percent of  his/her services and  the club  may cover                                                               
some costs involved.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:34:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
EDDIE  GRASSER,  Chairman,  Legislative Outdoor  Heritage  Caucus                                                               
Advisory Council, stated he wears  many hats but today represents                                                               
the aforementioned  organization, which he  chairs.  A  number of                                                               
organizations  have seats  on the  council, including  SCI, Kenai                                                               
River  Sportfishing Association,  Rocky Mountain  Elk Foundation,                                                               
National  Rifle  Association,  and  Ruffed Grouse  Society.    He                                                               
offered support for  HB 161 and believes it  will greatly benefit                                                               
the state in terms of  conservation and enhanced revenues for the                                                               
ADF&G.     Based  on  over   thirty  years  of   fundraising,  he                                                               
highlighted clarification  on several points.   He noted  that in                                                               
Version  Y, one  Dall sheep  has  been added,  but no  additional                                                               
bison so  it takes  it back to  the original  statutory language.                                                               
Thus, no additional bison are  added in Version Y.  Additionally,                                                               
the  organization   can  raffle  permit  package   hunts  in  the                                                               
marketplace, especially for prevalent  species, such as moose and                                                               
caribou to enhance  fundraising.  He acknowledged  a popular area                                                               
is the Nelchina Basin, although it  is a subsistence tier 2, tier                                                               
1,  area so  those permits  are not  available for  this type  of                                                               
permit.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GRASSER  reinforced  what Mr.  Harris  stated  about  Etolin                                                               
Island.  He said that the  four permits for Etolin Island elk are                                                               
in  current  statute.    In  terms  of  money  going  to  private                                                               
organizations, the 30 percent must  be spent in consultation with                                                               
the department.  Therefore, if  SCI obtained one of these permits                                                               
and raised  $100,000 and  obtained 30 percent,  it would  need to                                                               
consult with the  department on how the funds will  be spent.  He                                                               
characterized it  as being  a built in  safeguard.   Further, the                                                               
department  has  memorandum  of  agreements  (MOA)  with  several                                                               
organizations.   In  fact, any  of the  aforementioned nonprofits                                                               
has the ability to enter into  MOAs with the department.  He said                                                               
there  isn't   any  exclusionary   language  that   prevents  any                                                               
organization such as the Wild  Sheep Foundation (WSF), the Ruffed                                                               
Grouse Society (RGS), the Alaska Outdoor Council, or the SCI.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRASSER  said the LOHCAC  has made  this bill a  priority for                                                               
the  session  since the  organization  believes  it will  greatly                                                               
benefit Alaska.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:38:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI stated  that part of the rub  of the bill                                                               
as introduced  had to do with  being able to use  the proceeds to                                                               
pay for  expenses associated with  lobbying.  He  understood that                                                               
Mr.  Grasser lobbies  for  some  groups.   He  asked whether  the                                                               
organization  have  any objections  to  the  change and  how  the                                                               
information is audited.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRASSER  referred to page 2  of HB 161 [Version  Y, lines 14-                                                               
17].  He  emphasized that the organization would  need to consult                                                               
with the  department on how  to spend the  30 percent of  the net                                                               
proceeds.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI  asked for  further clarification  on how                                                               
the department currently audits to  ensure the funds are not used                                                               
for lobbying.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRASSER deferred to the department.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:40:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DON QUARBERG,  said he speaking  on behalf of himself,  but noted                                                               
he  also  serves  as  Chair  of  the  Delta  Advisory  Committee;                                                               
however, the  advisory committee  has not discussed  HB 161.   He                                                               
expressed  concern about  the supply  side economics,  noting the                                                               
committee  has already  discussed this;  however, he  agreed that                                                               
saturating the market  with permits will reduce their  value.  He                                                               
would prefer not to focus only  on the economics.  He highlighted                                                               
that the  chances of obtaining  a Tok management area  Dall sheep                                                               
permit is about one percent.   He suggested that with the limited                                                               
number of tags the department  could auction the permits off, but                                                               
the department must  manage based on a  sustained-yield basis for                                                               
Alaskans.   The  bill provides  the  commissioner with  a lot  of                                                               
latitude and  discretion to design how  the funds are spent.   He                                                               
suggested the bill  should have some sideboards.   He referred to                                                               
page  2,  lines   13-17  [of  the  original   bill]  to  language                                                               
restricting contributions  for political campaigns  and lobbying.                                                               
He did not object to that  language being inserted.  He preferred                                                               
not to allow proceeds to be spent on lobbying.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  QUARBERG  added  that  he  thought  10  percent  profit  was                                                               
acceptable.    He  expressed  concern  about  the  potential  for                                                               
creative accounting  in administrative costs associated  prior to                                                               
the net proceeds from permits.   He said until these concerns are                                                               
satisfied  he did  not  think  he could  support  the  bill.   He                                                               
understood  the  organizations wanting  to  support  the bill  to                                                               
increase  funding for  these worthy  nonprofits especially  since                                                               
these organizations benefit the public, too.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:44:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER, after  first determining no one  else wished to                                                               
testify, closed public  testimony on HB 161.  He  then passed the                                                               
gavel to Co-Chair Feige.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
[HB 161 was held over.]                                                                                                         

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB 135 2010 DNR Letter.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 135
HB 135 Legal question memo.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 135
HB 135 Michele Stevens Testimony.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 135
HB 135 Petersville Mine Map II.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 135
HB 135 Petersville Mine Map.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 135
HB 135 Sponsor.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 135
HB 135 Version A.PDF HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 135
HB135-DNR-MLW-2-14-14.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 135
HB161 Auction Proceeds.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 161
HB161 Fiscal Note.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 161
HB161 Explanation of Changes U to Y.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 161
HB161 Permit count.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 161
HB161 SCI Support.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 161
HB161 Sponsor.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 161
HB161 Support JHall.xps HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 161
HB161 Support LOHCAC.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 161
HB161 Version Y.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 161
HJR 26 BOEM Alaska OCS Lease Sales.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
SRES 2/26/2014 3:30:00 PM
HJR 26
HJR 26 BPC Revenue Sharing 101.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
SRES 2/26/2014 3:30:00 PM
HJR 26
HJR 26 OCS States Letter.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
SRES 2/26/2014 3:30:00 PM
HJR 26
HJR 26 Sponsor Statement.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
SRES 2/26/2014 3:30:00 PM
HJR 26
HJR 26 Version N.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
SRES 2/26/2014 3:30:00 PM
HJR 26
HJR26-LEG-SESS-02-18-14.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
SRES 2/26/2014 3:30:00 PM
HJR 26
HB161 SCI President Letter.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 161
HB135 AMA Letter.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 135
HB 135 Tileston Letter.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 135
HJR 26 FAIR Act (S.1273).pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
SRES 2/26/2014 3:30:00 PM
HJR 26
HJR 26 FAIR Act Summary.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
SRES 2/26/2014 3:30:00 PM
HJR 26
HJR 26 Mayor Brower Testimony.pdf HRES 2/19/2014 1:00:00 PM
SRES 2/26/2014 3:30:00 PM
HJR 26